Can the Matildas go all the way?

Sam Hawley: Hi, I'm Sam Hawley, coming to you from Gadigal Land. This is ABC News Daily. When the Matildas took on and won against Canada in the Women's World Cup, records fell, with the game being watched on TV by more than 2 million Australians. Expect those numbers to grow tonight when they come up against Denmark. Today the Ticket podcast host Tracey Holmes on what's led to the remarkable growth in the popularity of women's football and what to expect from tonight's game.

Tracey Holmes: It is a massive night. I can't emphasise how big this night is. It's not just, you know, that it's the world game, but it's this Matildas team that has really captured the imagination of the Australian public and has done for some time. But also so many of our players, including the captain who is yet to play. Sam Kerr, who is well known around the world as one of the best players in the world at the moment. So it's huge. Not just here, but in many places around the world.

Commentator: The nerves, the excitement, the tension all around the stadium is building up.

Sam Hawley: It was it was really exciting, wasn't it, when they got through to this round when they beat Canada. I mean, we were sort of yelling at the TV.

Commentator: Takes a touch on the right foot, shoots scores. But it's still there for Fowler. Fowler scores.

Commentator: Strikes it and strikes it beautifully. She sent Australia into the round of 16.

Commentator: They've done the job emphatically.

Sam Hawley: And we're hoping, of course, that they will succeed tonight. What do we know about Denmark?

Tracey Holmes: Well, Denmark is pretty interesting. They ranked not that far behind Australia. Australia's 10th. Denmark is ranked 13th. But this is the first time that they've made it to the World Cup since 2007. So they've had a bit of a struggle in the last decade or so. But in most recent times, like this year, they've actually struggled to score and that's an affliction that has hit some other teams. The USA's also suffering from this at the moment. It's not just that the teams can't score, it's that the goalkeeping is becoming so much stronger right around the world. But a little like Australia, they rely very heavily on one of their forwards, Pernille Harder, who plays for Bayern Munich. But they have proven that even with Pernille out, they can win big matches. So it's really interesting because it's a very similar scenario to Australia with Sam Kerr, and we proved the other night against Canada that we can win the big matches as well. Without Sam Kerr. It's just a matter of confidence, and confidence has played a very big part in many of the teams that are playing at this World Cup.

Sam Hawley: Yeah. Didn't Australia look so confident during that match with Canada? It was just such a thrill to watch that. How many fans do you think will be watching tonight? It's important this, isn't it, because it's so great for women's sport that so many people are watching this?

Tracey Holmes: Yeah, and I think an indication of how many will be watching on television is if you look at the numbers and the types of people that have been turning up to watch their matches. And I know that it's it's a really great storyline for the media to concentrate on all the little girls that go to watch the Matildas. But it's not stadiums full of little girls. There's little boys, there's mums and dads, there's grown men, there's grown women, there's grandmothers and grandfathers who go independently without families just because they, they love this team and they love the world game. And we know that tickets have pretty much sold out around the country for this tournament. It's been quite phenomenal Watching on television, 2.16 million Australians tuned in last time. It's the biggest audience for a women's sporting event, but that was an average, an average throughout the coverage. If you take in all coverage, video on demand and everything else was 4.71 million. It's absolutely massive.

Sam Hawley: I want to talk with you now, Tracey, about this rather spectacular rise of women's football and of course, the Matildas, because it has happened, hasn't it, over a relatively short period of time? It's been pretty fast.

Tracey Holmes: Well, I think that depends who you talk to. Sam Okay. All right.

Sam Hawley: It seems fast.

Tracey Holmes: It seems fast because the media started taking notice pretty late. But you talk to the Matildas alumni, you know, that go back to the early 1970s. You talk to people even before then who'd been playing the game, but the game wasn't recognised by the officials. In the end, there was an organisation called the Australian Women's Soccer Association that was set up that really helped start to develop the team and they started performing better and then they got into the Second World Cup, which was in 1995, and that was broadcast by, you know, the great Mr. Football, Les Murray, who was at SBS and who was really critical in getting the world game space in the Australian media landscape where.

Les Murray: Football is within the hearts of Australians. I think that I'm happy with with where those things are now compared to where they were in 1980 when we first started.

Tracey Holmes: When SBS started broadcasting the Women's World Cup, that's when the rest of the media landscape started taking notice. That's when the broader mainstream started noticing what was happening. And, you know, the Matildas kind of burst to life. But there are a lot of women who'd been playing well and truly before that. And the Matildas of today know that they stand on the shoulders of all of those women that came before them.

Sam Hawley: Yeah. And of course, women's football goes back a long, long way. It really came into its own during World War One. But then, Tracey, it was banned for a huge number of years. 50 years.

Tracey Holmes: Yeah. And that was in many countries. So the UK, of course, where a lot of the foundations were laid. But also I was talking to an historian from Brazil who was up in Brisbane for the Brazil France game the other night, and she was saying that women's football played professionally was actually banned for Brazilians until the 1980s. They kept playing anyway, as was the case in the UK. So when the men all came back from war, the women had been working the factories because the men were away as a bit of relief from work. They would go and play football. Then they started touring these football matches and they were really quite competitive. They were getting tens of thousands of people coming to watch them. When the men came back from war and resumed their responsibilities at the factories and whatnot. The women were told they could go back home now. Well, they didn't. They kept playing. And what they did was instead of saying, we're a professional outfit playing for prize money, we'll get you to pay all 10,000 of you or 20,000 of you, however many you're going to come in. And that money we're going to give to those in need. So it's interesting to note that women's football kind of came out of that environment and is still very heavily invested in issues that are larger than themselves, which is a very different scenario to the men's game, which is so professional. Sometimes people say so clinical, you know, they're almost coached out of much creativity and you've got the women who are seeing a lot of teams here at this World Cup where it's very creative. There's still a rawness about it, and the women are really happy to also pin their names and their images to to causes around the world that need attention of players.

Matildas: We stand on the shoulders of giants who have paved the way to afford the opportunities we have now.

Sam Hawley: Yeah. And of course, there is still a big fight going on for pay parity. The Matildas, they put out a video arguing that they deserve the same prize money, the same pay.

Matildas: We've come a long way in a short time. Collective bargaining has allowed us to ensure we now get the same conditions as the Socceroos, with one exception. Fifa will still only offer women one quarter as much prize money as men for the same achievement.

Tracey Holmes: Yeah, and so people will argue that the money you get paid is all dependent on the money that you bring in. And for the first time at this World Cup, the TV rights for the Women's World Cup have been separated from the men's World Cup. So up until now, TV stations around the world would pay excessively high amounts for the men's World Cup and effectively be given the Women's World Cup for free. So FIFA said in order to build the commercial value of the women, we're separating it now. And you can bid for the women independently of the men. So broadcast rights are starting to go up for the women's game. It's the first time they've actually had sponsors approaching FIFA directly saying we want to sponsor the women's game. We don't want to package the men's game and the women's game. We just want to sponsor the women's game. So there's a real shift happening and more money will be coming into it. As far as prize money goes, there's still a big disparity. So $110 million prize money for the women at this World Cup at the men's last World Cup in Qatar at the end of last year, it was 440 million. And FIFA are on record saying that they believe by the next World Cup in 2027, it will be equal with the men.

Sam Hawley: Wow. Yeah. Wow. All right. So, Tracey, despite the challenges, there has been this exponential growth in women's football. What do you think is is it going to just keep getting more and more popular?

Tracey Holmes: I think what has happened is the number of men that have stopped to have a chat to me when I'm waiting to do a live cross into the news channel or something. Yes. The number of men that stop and say we just love watching women's football because there's still this rawness about it. There's still this absolute joy. There's still this creativity. There's still this. We don't know what's going to happen.

Commentator: Back on towards Steph Catley and in behind the defenders Catley again who turned provider for the previous goal slides into the box. Rosa again. Oh, what a save from Sheridan.

Tracey Holmes: And and when we talk about money, this is the interesting thing. Of course you want people to be paid equally for equal work. When you look at the men's game, there's a there's a really strong sense of it being like totally excessive. What comes with that is a whole lot of expectation. You know, how you'll behave. You'll do what we tell you to do when we tell you to do it, we own you. You will play this way, we'll sub you off. At this time, it loses a lot of the joy. The women's game still has such joy. And when you think about the biggest sporting events in the world, someone said to me the other day it used to be the Olympics and the next two were the men's World Cup and the Women's World Cup. Well, now a lot of people believe the World Cup has overtaken the Olympics for global resonance. And I think they're right.

Sam Hawley: Yeah. Wow. All right. I better just get your prediction then, for tonight.

Tracey Holmes: Look, I said before the tournament started, I might have been one of the few people to say it. I think Australia can win it. I don't think it matters who we come up against. We can win. We can win the tournament. Having said that, Japan looks phenomenal. So take your pick.

Sam Hawley: Go to the Matildas. Thanks, Tracey.

Tracey Holmes: Thanks, Sam.

Sam Hawley: Tracey Holmes is the host of the Ticket podcast. If the Matildas win tonight, they'll proceed into the quarterfinals. This episode was produced by Veronica Apap. Sam Dunn, who also did the mix. Our supervising producer is David Coady. I'm Sam Hawley. ABC News Daily will be back again tomorrow. Thanks for listening.